Earlier this year, it was revealed thatthe Jim Henson Companywas teaming withRobert D. Krzykowsifor an adaptation ofGrendel, the 1971 novel byJohn Gardnerthat tells the story of the iconic monster from the epic poemBeowulffrom the monsters point of view. The movie boasts a stacked cast, includingJeff Bridgesas Grendel,Dave Bautistaas Beowulf,Sam Elliottas the Dragon,Bryan Cranstonas King Hrothgar and more.
This month, Collider was delighted to partner with the team behind the movie tobring audiences the first look at the titular Grendel, created by the Jim Henson workshop all under the direction ofBrian Henson. To celebrate this first look at what is sure to be an exciting addition to the world of bold and exciting fantasy films, I got the chance to sit down separately with both Krzykowski and Henson to discuss the upcoming project.
For Krzykowski, the project was the culmination of a lifelong fascination with Gardner’s novel, made all the better by the collaboration with the Jim Henson Company, whose work the director has long admired. For Henson, the appeal in Krzykowski’s pitch came from the character of Grendel himself, and the way in which the story approaches him. Both also talked about the challenges in adapting the novel for the screen, as a director and in terms of creature production, and they revealwhich Jim Henson projecthelped inspire the ambitious fantasy film.
‘Grendel’ Will Be a “Creature-Centric” Movie
COLLIDER: WhyGrendel? That’s my first question.
ROBERT D. KRZYKOWSKI: I read the novel in high school. It was taught to us, and the teacher was this bearded professorial guy that paced back and forth in front of the class and performed it, and it just felt so cinematic, and theatrical, and I just loved its sense of humor and its look at philosophy and religion and art and culture. It just fascinated me and I never really stopped thinking about it.
So during COVID, my producing partner Jay Glazer and I went to the family, who was very gracious, and granted us the rights to try to make a version of the movie that we could all be really proud of, and then somehow we got this unbelievable group of people together, piece by piece. I’m so grateful.
We have not seen a lot of takes on Beowulf, Grendel on screen, but there are some that exist. So for you in adapting this story, how do you aim to ensure that yours really stands apart?
KRZYKOWSKI: I think that the actors that we’re working with, they all have something, in talking to them, that they wanna get off their chest with each of the characters. AndGrendel,each vignette of the story is kind of a takedown of Western culture, but with a really irreverent sense of humor, and you’re looking at people through the lens of a monster, and it’s a really interesting place to view ourselves from. So in talking to this group of people, there’s just a lot of excitement to do it in a way that hasn’t been done before.
I think doing this with the Jim Henson Company, and with the Creature Shop in particular, and with Brian [Henson],it was a real opportunity to have a creature-centric moviewhere he’s the lead, and we’re with him every minute of the movie. That alone is a pretty unique thing, where the monster is just taking you through the entire story, and to have somebody that gives as much empathy and sweetness and charm as Jeff Bridges does with this really interesting, angry, frustrated character, I think it was a rich opportunity to do a version of this tale that we haven’t seen before.
Can you talk about this collaboration that you mentioned, with the Jim Henson workshop?
KRZYKOWSKI: It was my dream pretty much when I read the novel. I thought “how cool would it be if they wanted to do something like this?” It’s challenging material, it’s very deep philosophical stuff, and it’s also got an intensity to it that I wondered, would this resonate? But I think that again, it being a creature-driven movie, it’s so performance-based and it’s a rich acting opportunity for everyone across the board. I think they just saw something that really worked within the legacy of what they do so beautifully.
In my early conversations, I went to the Henson company to meet Brian for a different project and this came up and weirdly, I hadn’t even considered bringing it up to them. And Brian just lit up. He and his producing partner, Vince [Raisa], they both were leaning forward as I was telling them about it, and he just turned to Vince and said, “this sounds like something I would wanna produce.”
He said it reminded him ofThe StoryTeller, which was a great series he did with his father Jim [Henson], and the texture of it and the maturity of it, and also taking all of the technology and engineering into 2024 was, I think, an exciting opportunity for them to do everything that they’re so expert at, and everything that they love, and tell a really good story within that. It just seemed like a great kind of opportunity for all of us to do something that we would be proud of.
‘Grendel’ Fits in With Jim Henson Productions Like ‘Dark Crystal’ and ‘Labyrinth’
This is gonna be my silly question and please forgive it. Because I am a movie lover of a certain age, I hear classical literature, I hear Jim Henson Company, my mind immediately goes to the Muppets. This is not a Muppet movie, I’m going to make that very clear, but in the way that it’s kind of coming about in this collaboration with the Jim Henson Company, does it feel maybe more similar to those sort of classical literature adaptations that we used to see a lot in the nineties than maybe somebody would expect, obviously, minus the Kermit and Miss Piggy of it all.
KRZYKOWSKI: I know that Jim Henson was really interested in making these avant-garde short films when he was younger, like in the late sixties, and this weirdly kind of connects to that more than anything. So it has a wonderful sense of humor. Grendel is a very funny book and the movie is very funny. This is more likeTaxi Driverby way of the Jim Henson Company, but it has an irreverent sense of humor that reminds me of Douglas Adams, Kurt Vonnegut, and Monty Python.
That is really exciting because it also balances this very cerebral world that Grendel lives in, where he’s trying to understand humans, and he’s trying to find his place among them, and he can never quite figure out how to get the right pieces in the right order to be satisfied. I think that there’s something really interesting about that. As you move through this, there’s a great warning in the way that Grendel engages with the world, and I know Jeff Bridges and I have talked about that a lot, the moral purpose of this, and I think that it leaves the audience with something really meaningful to talk about when they leave a story like this.
I think that John Gardner was thinking about all of those things as well. He didn’t explain things in black and white. He left you with a whole lot to think of, and I hope that that’s the same thing that happens when you see this movie.It’s so interesting, it fits so nicely in with what the Jim Henson Company has done withLabyrinthandDark Crystal, andThe Storyteller.
I have such great affection forLabyrinth, so this makes me very, very happy.
KRZYKOWSKI: Good. Yeah, I do too. I love it. The texture of [Grendel] is that kind of rich, classic, mid-eighties fantasy film. Mid-eighties isn’t even the right way to put it, just a classic fantasy film except in some ways, it goes back much further than that. It’s all about the team of artists that we’re putting together and it’s just really exciting.
You’re right though, because that late eighties, early nineties period of fantasy was just so unashamed of its own premise, and just really went for it.
KRZYKOWSKI: Yeah. We’re doing so much classic model-making, practical creature work, old-fashioned photographic visual effects. Before my friend and colleague Douglas Trumbull passed, he was gonna take on a large chunk of the effects in this film. Now his creative partner, Richard Yuricich, has handpicked a new group of young effects wizards from around the world that can kind of do what he and Doug did. Sowe have this wonderful texture to the film that I think is gonna be really unexpected as well. There’s a lot of handmade effects work throughout the movie.
That pivots into my next question. So have you started filming?
KRZYKOWSKI: Yeah, we’re basically fabricating all of the creatures right now. They’ve just completed the creature build for Grendel and now they’re moving into Grendel’s Mother, and then the dragon, which is voiced by Sam Elliott, and it’s this great dragon that kind of emulates Sam in a really, really cool way.
What a voice for a dragon.
KRZYKOWSKI: Yeah, I can’t wait for you to see the design. You’ll be like “that is Sam Elliott as a dragon.”
‘Grendel’ Takes Risks With Story and Character
What for you in this, in this process, be it filming, be it creature design, has been the most surprisingly straightforward, and then on the flip side, the most unexpectedly challenging?
I think right now, telling a story that takes risks. It’s just difficult to get the right people together that go “this is a risk worth taking.” An audience is gonna reach out and grab something like this because they’re starved for this type of newness. I think that the most difficult challenge is just putting the right people together that will support something like this. You get pretty used to a series of no’s, and then all of a sudden you get this one magical yes, and it’s always the person that was the most perfect for it.
That’s kind of how this picture has developed, is that the exact people who are supposed to be making it have gravitated toward it.They understand it and they know that we’re gonna be showing audiences something that is really unexpected, and unique, and exciting, and that’s the whole point of making movies. That’s what gets me up every day.
I think the easiest part of it is just the joy of working with artists, particularly when you give them the opportunity to surprise you. My producing partner and mentor John Sayles, who’s an executive producer onGrendel, long ago said one of his favorite parts of making a movie is when the group starts to come together. The pressure valves start to release because you start trusting people to their gifts, and they start surprising you with these new vectors of their creativity that you never could have expected. So the process of designing the creatures and the world building and the design, the art direction, all of that is a group of people that are so passionate that they just want to bring you something really special.
We’re all working in concert to bring John Gardner’s unique vision to life. We’re all kind of just doing that together as a team. It’s like a clear eyed vision that everybody seems to see what this could be and are bringing their absolute best to it. So that’s when I think the easiest part is just working with wonderful artists.
You talked about the art side of things, but in terms of adaptation of the actual story, what for you has been the biggest hurdle in adaptation, be it making sure that the tone is right, or maybe something in the story that just wouldn’t work in changing mediums?
KRZYKOWSKI: I went into this with the doctor’s creed: First, do no harm. Looking at John Gardner’s novel, I hold it in such high esteem, and I wanted to do right by the family that granted us permission to make this. I did a forensic dive into the world of Beowulf throughout history, and then the novel itself, just finding every single moment that felt cinematic and felt like it had to be said. These are the core themes that John Gardner is trying to get across. This is what he needed to get off his chest.
And then in talking with Jeff Bridges, and Bryan Cranston, and the rest of the team, when they’re reading the novel and when they’re reading the script, you start to hear what they wanna get off their chest with this. So it just becomes really, these things that matter are bright and shining within the novel, and they’ve all made their way into the screenplay. I think it’s a very faithful adaptation. The novel is 174 pages, and the screenplay is 96 pages. There’s a lot that has to be distilled, but it was an enjoyable process, and it was something that I think it just became clear what needed to be said on screen.
We talked a bit about how this movie works in concert with the legacy of the Jim Henson Company, but for you as a creative, outside of the sort of Jim Henson oeuvre, what are the works, the influences, the styles that you feel personally inspired by, as just a filmmaker in general, but with regard to Grendel specifically.
KRZYKOWSKI: I think that it has an irreverent sense of humor that reminds me a little bit of the Coen Brothers, but it also has kind of a mean streak in it that reminds me of some of Ridley Scott’s more pensive, deep thinking, be it historical or science fiction, pieces. There’s something aboutGrendelthat feels like it doesn’t really exist in our reality.
It’s a fantasy. The way John Gardner writes Grendel, he’s more like a beatnik in the way that he talks, and everyone else around him is very Shakespearean and they have two very different ways of speaking. I love how kinetic and how alive Sam Raimis cameras [are]. I love Anthony Minghella, and I know that Brian was really close to him, and I think that it’s a textured piece, and so it needs that kind of vibrancy in the colors and in the camera work and in the texture of the film. That’s what we’re all aiming for.
I like to end on this question, which is for you as the director, when audiences see this movie, what do you hope that they take away from it?
I hope that, like it did for me, when you’re an angsty or lonely young person, and you come across a story like this, you really see yourself in it. I think working with the Jim Henson Company, working with the creatures and with Jeff Bridges, I think they all feel that part of them that was trying to find their place in the world.Grendelasks those big questions and then it respects you enough to walk away and draw your own conclusions.
And maybe more than that, to talk to people about it. That’s my favorite thing about a movie, is as the credits are rolling, you lean across to your friend and there’s just so much going through your mind, and you take it on the car ride home. My friends and I, and everyone that I’ve been working with on this, we always digress into “what do you think this means?” or “why was this here? What does this illustrate?”
I think that there’s not a clear moral lesson, but a call to think deeply about our place in the world. I think that that’s what Grendel does so well. And again, it does it in a way that is simultaneously sweet and sensitive but angry and frustrated. I think there’s just something so human about this movie about a monster.
I love that. The humanizing of the monster is a thing that I am a huge fan of.
KRZYKOWSKI: It’s been a joy I can’t even explain, and it’s taken the time that it’s taken and I’ve just been surprised by the group. You start out trying to build something like this and the mountain just looks so gigantic, and then piece by piece, you start to just look to your left and right, and there’s these incredible people helping you push the boulder up the hill. It’s pretty special.
Brian Henson Was Drawn to How “Thoughtful” Grendel Is
COLLIDER: What about Bob’sGrendelconcept appealed to you?
BRIAN HENSON: It really did start with the character of Grendel. That’s where I started. Because if you think ofBeowulf, you think of Grendel as a monster, like a werewolf, literally an unthinking, destructive beast. And this is just such an unusual novel that John Gardner wrote, in 1971, of telling the story ofBeowulfthrough the villain’s point of view.
But what was most exciting to me isGrendel’s thoughtful, he’s thinking all the time, and as a company, that’s what I love. As a puppeteer, that’s what I love. I love to really bring a puppet or a creature to life as a really full, three dimensional, thinking, emotive, emotional character. And it’s not what people normally will do with creatures. So the very fact that this was coming from Grendel’s point of view, and that he was such a complex character, that was what initially excited me.
And then I got very excited about doing as much of it practical as possible. Because this is another problem. If you have a creature that’s very three dimensional in his personality, and deep and thoughtful, it’s hard to do scenes with actors, if the actor’s acting opposite a green screen, or talking to the script supervisor who’s feeding them lines.
So the fact that we can really put the cast in the room with Grendel and in the space with Grendel, I just thought, “oh, this is a unique opportunity to do a sophisticated, adult piece.” It’s not adult like some of my R rated stuff is very adult. But it’s adult in its theming for sure, and it’s extremely thought-provoking, and then the character of the dragon, and the mother, all that excited me. Quite honestly, I was most excited by the depth of the piece, thematically what it’s doing, but really these creatures, these deep thoughtful creatures, it’s just something that I feel like that’s hard to do, but what I love the most.
‘Grendel’ Draws Influence From Jim Henson’s ‘The StoryTeller’
I wanna talk a bit about process, but I also want to riff on a really silly question I asked Bob earlier, which was because I’m a movie lover of a certain age, and I hear Jim Henson, and I hear classic literature, I think, I think of the Muppets and I know this isn’t a Muppet movie. But I wonder from your perspective in terms of puppeteering, in terms of creating things, when it comes to adapting a piece of literature like this — like withTreasure Island, like withChristmas Carol— is it that as vastly different as the tones of the movie would suggest, or is it actually more similar than maybe somebody would realize?
HENSON: I was very influenced by working onThe StoryTellerseries. I don’t know if you know theStoryTellerseries, theJim Henson StoryTellerseries. It’s nine European Folk tales adapted by Anthony Minghella.We did nine half-hour movies, and they were very ambitious. It was just so much fun for us as a group of artists, because we had to do nine movies back to back, and we had to get creatures, and Steve Barron was involved in the look and the style and Roger [Hall], the production designer. I was very influenced by the work that I did on that, and it was dark, but thought-provoking, and emotional, and deep.
So after my dad died, and we were adaptingChristmas Carol, I was resistant in directing it because I had only done television series as a lead director up until then. But then when everybody really wanted me to direct it, and I felt “OK if you’re all gonna help, be there.” The difference is what I did was, I didn’t do a comedy.Muppet Christmas Carolis not a comedy, and every Muppet movie leading up until then was classic comedy structure, two laughs per page, two jokes per page. You rate the movie by how much the audience is laughing during the film. You have to make sure to have the characters hold for the laugh that’s gonna be there in the theater, and I threw all that out the window withChristmas Carol. So I brought that passion that I had from theStoryTelleradaptations to the Muppets, and put it together and did really the first Muppet drama. It was a drama,Muppet Christmas Carol. Sure, it’s funny in places, but it’s a drama.
One thing I just loved about this is,this is very much like a bigStoryTellerepisode, and we use all sorts of film tricks, and scenic artistry, and forced perspective, and hanging miniatures, and all sorts of wonderful ways to present the world. InThe StoryTeller, they were all European folk tales but not set anywhere specific. They were all fantasy European locations, and then done in quite a stylized way. So that’s how I wanted — and Bob was very much on board — that’s the way we should do Grendel.
In terms of the adaptation of a classic, we’re not doing an adaptation ofBeowulf,we’re doing an adaptation ofGrendel, which was a unique piece, very unusual, written right around the peak of the Vietnam War. You can feel that struggle that was going on in America, in John Gardner’s writing ofGrendel, and the character of Grendel. In terms of the adaptation, for me, I’m excited about its roots. I’m excited about its Ancient European roots. It’s definitely very faithful to John Gardner’s book, but with dialogue tweaks and stuff like that. You’re not feeling the 1970s in the telling of the movie, if that makes sense. I don’t know if I gave you an answer. You were asking how do I approach an adaptation?
[Laughs] Also from a creation perspective.
HENSON: From the creation perspective, what I always have believed in is, and I struggled on projects that I have made more recently where I had a lot of other influence driving with too much authority, is that you really do want to have the audience suspending their disbelief. Being asked early on, “you know this isn’t real-real, so we’re gonna put you in a different reality, and now you’re gonna love being there.” By doing that little suspension of disbelief, it suddenly becomes ok if somebody knows something is a puppet. It doesn’t even become ok, it becomes better.
When somebody watches theDark Crystal, they appreciate that 1000 artists worked onDark Crystal. You can see it, you can just watch the movie, and you can see the hand of the artist. If an audience goes and watches a Marvel movie, you probably had 2000 artists working on a Marvel movie and you don’t see their artistry. What I love about stylizing the world, stylizing the visuals a little bit, you’re asking the audience “make a leap of faith with me, and now I’m gonna tell you a tale in this reality, in this world.” And I think that’s invaluable, because it makes the audience really appreciate what you’re doing. rather than just sitting there going “Is that really how that would look? Is that what happened in that moment?” For me, I think a certain amount of stylization to a fantasy world, and it has to be the right stylization that puts the audience in the place you want them to be, so that they’re gonna be most open to the story that you’re gonna tell them.
Grendel Will Be a Hybrid Animatronic 3D Character
In terms of the actual physical creation being done onGrendel, this can be as vague as you want it to be, it can be as specific as you want it to be, because I know it’s still in process, what for you has been the thing that you find has gone maybe smoother than you expected, and the thing that was unexpectedly challenging in whatever respect?
HENSON: We’re not far enough for me to tell you what was unexpectedly challenging. What we’ve done so far, I’m feeling very good about. What’s really gonna be great is you’re gonna see us use techniques from over the history of our company, what we’ve done really well, but we’re also, in working with Dennis Berardi, who’s a visual effects genius, gonna mix in what Dennis can do with the character with what we can do with the character,to give what I call a hybrid animatronic 3D animated character. I really think that’s the best way to go, and I think it’ll be very impressive, and I think a very compelling character, Grendel will be, and so will the Dragon and so will the Mother and so will, obviously, all the human cast.
In terms of working with Bob on this collaborative process, I wonder if you’re able to share a bit of your perspective with how that’s been?
HENSON: Well, it’s just “how would you do this? How would you do this?” Because we’re both directors, so we both go “well, how would you do this? Well, how would you do that?” That’s just a really healthy back and forth, and we like each other a lot, and we’re trying to push ourselves so that we do some things in a way that nobody’s ever done.We really are being, you could call it experimental, I would say very creative in how some of the sequences will be approached.Again, it’s part of weaving that world that requires a suspension of disbelief from the audience that they like to make that leap, and then you deliver something extraordinary.
So I feel like once this is out, I’m gonna have a million more questions, but for now as I wind down, you have obviously engaged with this text, and the story. What is it about this story that you most want audiences to take away from it at the end of the day?
HENSON: That’s a toughie. And now you’re kind of bang on theme. Anthony Minghella once told me, “don’t write the theme, don’t even tell anyone what the theme of your movie is until you’re in post production, and that’s when you’ll know what the theme is.”
So the book as you know, is quite nihilistic at times, and the implication is there can’t be good without evil, and sometimes you just have to be evil and you don’t have to think that that’s a bad thing because without that, there wouldn’t be good. It’s just thought-provoking.Mostly what this movie will be is very thought-provoking. Utimately, you’re gonna feel a great connection to Grendel, even though Grendel has, right through the movie, made every almost evil choice that he could have made, because of his anger, because of his frustration. He’s made himself evil and almost at any point in his life he could have changed, and even though he’s constantly going, “why do I do this when I could be doing this?” and he just doesn’t make that choice.
It’s interesting. I want this to inspire filmmakers to be creative, to be less literal and more creative in their filmmaking. It’s really nice to be doing an adult-themed, deep, thought-provoking film that really will hopefully inspire filmmakers to be much more creative in their approach, and like everything that we do, I hope that inspires creativity to the whole audience too that watches it.
There is currently no release date forGrendel. Stay tuned to Collider for more.
